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House GOP Offers Health Alternative
A draft of the House Republicans' health-care bill has been made public, revealing legislation that focused on lower costs rather than expanding coverage. The bill—weighing in at 230 pages to the Democrats’ 1,990-page proposal—doesn't stop insurance companies from denying coverage to people with pre-existing conditions and has no requirement that people buy health insurance. It also caps malpractice damages, encourages the creation of insurance pools, and provides incentives for people to use health savings accounts. Aides to Minority Leader John Boehner (R-OH) have said that the bill is a draft, and changes may still be made.
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If they can't even stop insurance companies from denying coverage to people with pre-existing conditions, then it hardly even qualifies as minimal reform. Only one part of it is any good, in which they don't require people to buy private health insurance.
Health savings accounts are a joke, since many people out there in TV Land have no money to buy private health insurance or are unemployed. That's why we have to expand Medicare and Medicaid.
Republicans always like to take a swipe at the lawyers because they are often liberal or left-wing and donate lots of money to the Democrats, but that part of the proposal is just political NS and doesn't do anything about the real problem of millions of people with no money or no jobs not having any real health care coverage.
Republicans, need to make the insurance companies to allow pre-existing conditions or its not worth anything. Taking a swipe at the lawyers is always a good thing, stop the huge law suites. What they didnt address purchasing across state lines to make premiums cheaper. It doesnt go far enough...Needs work
The huge court judgements in favor of medical malpractice suits are nonsense.
Most never get to court and those that do seldom pay off more than $200,000.
This is just more propoganda from the Republicans.
Malpractice insurers as well as health care insurers over charge! It is just as simple as that. It is not that the malpractice premiums are justified, they just rip the doctor's off at America's expense.
i agree with diamondgirl, need to get pre-existing condition language in there, and some language to prohibit max lifetime limits. I think TDB missed it though, i read elsewhere that there were provisions to allow cross-state line sales, could be wrong though.
The R's had six years of both houses and the presidency and didn't do anything but pander to the seniors with the donut-holed prescription drug plan.
"Tort reform" will greatly benefit tobacco and asbestos (big Bush contributors), but does little for true health cost containment.
"Buying across state lines" is just a bait-and-switch game of lower prices for substandard coverage.
"Portability" avoids "pre-existing conditions" reform.
All of these do nothing to help those who don't have or can't afford insurance.
squarey, Squash those Lawyers anyway, they have way too much influence. I have no way of checking your facts, so I am gonna accept your comments but I need to read more to see what's really in it. They need to help in some way those who are too sick or poor with some form of health care...or clinics.
But there is no reason to change everyones health care, just the sick and poor
I would agree with tort reform if the Republicans would also agree that the insurance companies should be capped from charging doctors $100,000 or $200,000 in premiums. So far, I have only heard the Repubs say they want to cap the amount a person can sue. So then what? That doesn't keep the insurance companies from charging the doctors hundreds of thousands of dollars in premiums.
I agree with square. The insurance companies are ripping the doctors off just as much as the individual consumer.
DG stop the big law suits is always the answer. Until it is you that is the victim of either malpractice or bad medical devices....then it's more than appropriate. Tort reform is not needed to bring about health care reform!
Tort reform helps, but is not the end-all, save all. It is a step in the right direction though.
Buying across state lines ='s more competition, competition drives down costs. Economics 101
Although not allowing insurance to exclude pre-existing conditions goes against every libertarian sense i have, it is needed at least for now. Perhaps I'm being punitive, but oh well.
Well, I've got a health savings account - it's call "putting money aside so I can pay for my deductable
Is there an alternative to the alternative?
Lowering health-care costs seems like a reasonable idea, and the Republicans can do it without slashing Medicare for seniors, giving free healthcare to every illegal alien in the country, and exploding the deficit the way the democrats do it.
The republicans healthcare doesn't adress ANYTHING it's basically what we have now, not even Pre-Existing conditon god these people are fools .
Ofcourse you already knew that bot.
Please show were the bill that's coming out of the house would slash Medicare. Please give a link and some facts.
angels before he responds with some lies.
False: Medicare Benefits Will Be Slashed
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/seven-falsehoods-about-health-care/
angel and progressive: As you both probably know, Plantkin's lie about "slashing" Medicare has been factually refuted, with non-partisan links provided, many, many times here on TDB. As has diamonds nonsense about "purchasing [insurance] across state lines" lowering costs. Plantkin will never give up one of her key propaganda points, and diamondgirl will never listen.
Still, the lies need to be challenged every time they appear. Thanks for doing so.
Progressive, that factcheck was dated August 2009. Doesn't apply to the new House proposal.
Carole that must be a joke right?
Or do you simply choose to be stupid?
Progressive2 - I think Carole's stupidity is a pre-existing condition.
Sorry, Progressive and spotted, but, unless you've read the new 3200 page House proposal, your reference to factcheck.org is dated.
so i guess using carole's logic... I can state whatever I want, and unless you have read the current version of the bill then it must be considered... ok so, I heard that the House bill will cover chickens and donkeys and that they will be sent to the front of the line, causing rationing and long waits for humans... I also heard that instead of death panels, (since they are so popular) they decided to take it a step further and have death squads... anyone who is older than 80 or has an IQ under 80 will be executed and sold to McDonald's to cover the cost of providing all the illegal aliens, chickens, and donkeys free socialist commie health care.
Phil: Just hope those chickens and donkeys blindfolded and their executions are done in public. I would think that Kentucky Fried Chicken would want to be part of the action
angel go to cnsnews.com"
The $829 billion cost of the legislation is to be financed in large part by deep cuts to Medicare and other federal programs for the elderly, poor and disabled, which will be slashed by about $400 billion over the next decade.
About $200 billion will be cut by lowering Medicare payments to hospitals, nursing homes and other providers. Medicare Advantage (MA), the program through which more than 10 million seniors receive Medicare benefits via private health insurance plans, will see a $113 billion reduction
The Republicans in this congress have sat on their hands. Suddenly, after the Democrats have done all of the work and the public is sold on health care reform, the Republicans have to sound like they were for it all along. Their idea of health care is a bad idea and nothing more. They are the biggest disappointment in America.
At least the Democrats did their homework, paid for the advertisements, and tried to include the reluctant Republicans. Republican health care is no health care reform. It is a sham. They can't even mention doing away with pre-existing insurance considerations when selling insurance. Now that Republicans have frightened seniors over nothing, they want to be seen as supporting health care all along. Sorry! Americans will remember them for the anit-health care reform villains that they really are. The Republicans lack morals and American values of equality and fairness for all.
Squarey,
So you believe that the Democrats have been trying to work with the Republicans but in reality they haven't even been letting the Republicans at the table, and the White House has been refusing to talk with the Republicans sense May. HMMMM you really have a messed up idea of bipartisanship. As for the Democrats bills, Pelosi say one thing but her bill says differently, go read it, Reid and the fellow Democrats in the Senate wont even let us read their bill. As for the Republicans they have bills but Pelosi wont let them come out because She controls the agenda.
All of that aside, shouldn't you consider why the Democrats wont allow portability but they want to compete against the Insurance Companies. Tell me how one competes with the group who sets the rules, thats right you cant.
Plantagenet,
Just more nonsense from you.
Medicare is not being slashed.
We are not giving away health care to illegal immigrants.
Measures have been taken to keep the economy from bleeding after the failed economic policies of the Bush Administration.
Please get the facts right!
Americans are showing that they can be responsible and compassionate at the same time. Not many Americans are like the congressional Republicans who don't care about the health and welfare of the average American. The Democrats have had the vision and the courage to do the right thing and stand up to the insurance companies on behalf of all Americans. The Republicans are just attempting to hide their shame and lack of responsibility.
Nice post, squareyellow. I'd just add, as I think you know, the issue with Plantkin is not that she doesn't "get the facts right." Plantkin knows exactly what the facts are. With Plantkin, the facts aren't the point. They don't matter.
She is a shameless and cynical propagandist and will intentionally distort factual evidence or, just as often, ignore it. Everything she posts here reflects her goal: to destroy Obama.
Nicely said!!!
Just as a kicker to your post, Square: The LA Times reports that the big insurance companies are thinking of sending patients abroad for operations to cut costs.
Here's the link. Hope it works.
http://www.latimes.com/features/health/medicine/la-oe-dugan3-2009nov03,0 ,4342765.story
Squarey, I am in complete agreement. Nothing matters to the right wingers, most Repubs, and even some Dems except that they stay in Power, hold their seats, etc. They thrive and their families thrive from all the perks and privileges accorded them via taxpayers' money. Why should they back ANY Democratic program geared to increase citizen's quality and richness of life! Such is not their interest. So many are backed by and beholden to the HC insurance industry for all the contributions to their individual campaigns (Liverman and Bayh, to name the worst of them) and to special interests of gluttonous corporations as well! In my view, there is only one good thing that's come from the DC circus since the election trail began in 2007...that more people than ever in history are taking an interest in how America's govt operates. And they are giving voice to the Pony Show that we have so far been forced to accept as true democracy in action.
unclelew - Wow!
I've heard about medical tourism, but now we're going to start outsourcing. Well, there goes all the claptrap about "the best healthcare in the world."
Really?? Got any good ideas, or are you as vague, un-original and un-creative as Boehner??
Giving free Healthcare to every illegal alien in the country was a product of a bill signed into law by Mr Ronald Regan.............check your facts!!!
Republicans are clueless about what the people want, all they want to do is protect profits for Corporate America
The Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act allows anyone to receive emergency health care services. You may be in the country legally or illegally, just visiting or trying to earn some cash for the family back home, wherever home is. If it's an emergency, you will be treated, no questions. How can anybody bitch about this law no matter who passed it and who signed it?
NOT EVEN AN ATTEMPT TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM OF DENIAL OF COVERAGE FOR PRE-EXISTING CONDITIONS OR TO CONTOL PREMIUMS?
To quote McEnroe, "You can't be serious?"
The Repubs were going to include it but apparently Boehner can't read beyond 230 pages. If he does his skin goes from orange to green
I think the GOP health care plan consists of buying a membership in Pat Robertson's Church and praying that you don't get sick.
Now, that's a good one.
if you act now, you get the prayer cloth AND the "please, I need a miracle" cloth..
"doesn't stop insurance companies from denying coverage to people with pre-existing conditions and has no requirement that people buy health insurance."
WTF? so this bill is basically a FU to all the Americans that die every year because they lack healthcare insurance?
no change at all, how useless.
You hit the nail on the head. That is exactly what this Republican bill is: too little, too late.
I hope the Republicans are ALL replaced in the next election. The Republican Party has turned its back on great Americans like war hero and Senator John McCain and have decided to support the least common denominator: the dysfunctional and the immoral.
It looks to me like this bill is just something cobbled up to prove that the Republican promise (6 months ago) to produce a bill was not just empty talk.
So now Rush Limbaugh and Fox News get to boast about it. What a joke!
Alan, I agree. However, an interesting subtext to this "bill" is the cynical assumption by House Republicans that the public, at least their rapidly-diminishing part of the public, are stupid dolts and will somehow see this bill as some kind of "reform", when all it means is no reform at all.
This is the best they've got? They're worse then the party of "NO" now they're also the party of no ideas!
The health insurance companies would like to thank the repug party in the house for putting forth a bill that doesn't effect anything we do or get in the way of our profits.
They've got tort reform and "buying across state lines" pools, but what about the Third Stooge - portability? Did Boehner forget that one?
spotted: spot on!
Buying across state lines is such a joke. What makes anyone think that Kaiser is going to sell insurance at a lower price then Well Point? Why would anyone of them kill the goose that is laying the golden egg? We all know right away that this is a scam, if the insurance companies are for it.
it's a way to get around any regulations that get put in the reform bill as well.. they move to a state that has no regulations, and claim that the federal regulations dont apply, and that they are following state regulations.. tie it all up in court for ever ,and they continue to make monster profits even with legal fees...
So, basically, the GOP needed 250 pages to introduce a resolution to maintin the status quo.
It is difficult to generate a solution when you you don't believe there is a problem to begin with.
Perhaps Boehner doesn't think his "tan" makes him like a Jack-O-Lantern either?
250 pages over how many months...10? That's about 25 pages per month, or less than one page per day. Now wonder Republicans claim that the government never does anything right; they're the prime example!
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repubs had the advantage of watching the dems fall all over themselves as their plan comedically morphed publicly and incomprehensibly. so what do the repubs do? propose a plan that is missing such obvious elements that it too will morph in public. i don't know what to say, this is pitiful.
how about coming up with some ideas on how to get people back to work?!
not to sure it was hoth the paper its on.
I know, Hoth is a cold planet. Wait-- what?
NewyorkERR hardly ever makes sense...
There's a lot of debate about a lot of issues, but if you don't cover pre-existing conditions, then this isn't reform.
Brendino: If it doesn't have a public option to hold costs down, it's not reform.
Says those liberal democrats who want to control everyone, so they get their vote when they run for office. No Way Jose! Why do you think NJ election for Governor is so tough? Mostly Unions, they vote for Corzine, because he is bed with them and gave them every dam thing they wanted...
The biggest employer in the State of NJ is the government, there have been no private jobs created in the past 4 years because Corzine raised the taxes on small business and made it difficut to operate or hire. Its all in the plan, Rules for Radicals, Saul Alinski, go read it...
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diamondgirl- "gave them every dam thing they wanted."
That's a flat out lie.
"As of July 1, 2007, in agreements with the Communications Workers of America, the American Federation of State, County, and Municipal Employees, and the International Federation of Professional and Technical Engineers, active State employees in those unions (as well as certain other non-union employees) are now required to contribute 1.5% of their salary to offset health care costs. State and local employees' contributions to the two largest pension systems by 10%, from 5% to 5.5% of their annual salaries and increased the retirement benefit age for new public employees, from 55 to 60 years. [71] In 2008, Corzine approved a law that increased the retirement age from 60 to 62, required that government workers and teachers earn $7,500 per year to qualify for a pension, eliminated Lincoln's Birthday as a state worker holiday, allowed the state to offer incentives not to take health insurance and required municipal employees work 20 hours per week to get health benefits.[72]"
Your other statements are also lies, and so ridiculous I won't bother addressing them.
Thanks repubs for sticking up for the people that really count to you: the insurance companies. And where was the transparency of this work in progress? Disappointing to say the least.
Lets get real...The repugs are not for reform, they are only about making sure that Obama fails at whatever he tries to do. Repugs could care less about you or me and if we have affordable health care. When they were in power they didn't do anything, they didn't even bring the issue up. This is nothing but them trying to undo anything Democrats try to do, and gaining power again. You and me could die tomorrow for all they care.
and the timing of this bill is suspicious as well.. they are determined to keep this thing going until 2010, and introducing a bill that is just the same crap they've been spewing, with no reform now is just a stall..
this is not a game to the rest of america, and if they think we (most of us) don't notice what is going on, the way they are playing a game with our wellbeing then they really have lost their minds..
While Obama and the Republicans sat back with disinterest, the Congressional Democrats did all of the work on health care reform.
How can we forgive the President, Joe Lieberman, and the Republicans for their lack of support for the hard work of the Democrats in the interests of the American people? We can't.
squareyellowpaper: I wouldn't accuse Obama of a lack of support just yet.
There are still some serious hurdles ahead - despite Lieberman's now saying that he will vote with Democrats to end the debate - and Obama may yet have to jump into the fracas to get a bill passed.
AlanD These elections are showing the big picture it's a trickle down affect from obama. The people in New Jersey and Virgina are expressing what the rest of the country feels. They want jobs, fix the economy and stop spending. That means no healthcare, no cap and trade and no more stimulus pkgs. {not now}
Priorities is the word.
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The irrelevant party issues a 230-page irrevelant "proposal" that proposes no change.
The party of "NO" has spoken.
Boehner has only one draught... the draft between his ears.
haaaay o
The greatest criticism of the Republicans regarding the Democratic Health Care Reform Bill is that it was far too long to read! What does that reveal?
Did their lips get tired?
They got nothing.
Just as useless as the earlier republican stimulus and budget bills, both submitted without numbers.
Re-publican healthcare plan = hurry up and die because its cheaper to bury you than take care of you,which in turn is a "death panel" Sorry Sarah Bush you have "no" credibility at all.........! tell us about your healthcare plan Sarah Bush
A key point left out on this TDB post cocerns the pre-existing conditions. No, insurance companies would not have to insure these people. A high-risk pool would be formed for those people. I have no clue how it would be paid for or who would run it, though.
Neither do the repugs.
Same thing he's one
angels81: Do you want the Rebublicans to sweet talk you and tell you they will respect you in the morning? There's no free lunch, kiddo.
I'll never understand how the so-called richest nation in the world can deny it's population of FREE health-care.
Most other developed nations do it.
FREE health care??? Where did you read that the 3200 page House proposal is going to be free?
You misread the post.
How's that, kdj? What's your intrepretation?
He didn't say the bill was going to provide free health care. Read it again. We'll wait...
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See here's the thing, grumpyguy, what you and I will pay in increased taxes for a public option will be equal to, and considering how the government runs programs, probably more when all is said and done. Just swaping one for another. Cost efficency is not something attributable to government run programs. They have this nasty habit of borrowing from one program to fund another.
This proposal by the GOP does contain features that, I would bet, more people could support. Grant you, the specifics aren't there, but this initial proposal makes a lot more sense in this economy than a trillion dollar proposal by the House.
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Does anybody know if the Republican bill repeals the anti-trust exemption for insurance companies?
funny..
Have you noticed the debate has changed from about a year ago? Healthcare reform was supposed to be about making health insurance affordable to more poeple..... so that more poeple could afford to buy it.
That sounded great, but was arguably a very complex problem to solve.
Now the idea of making it more affordable has been thrown out. Now its about covering everyone. (Well, not everyone since 20 million will still be uncovered by PelosiCare)
Lets not be stupid about this. It can only happen at great expense to those already paying for thier coverage.
If you make insurance companies cover more expensive, sicker patients without charging them extra, the only way to do it is to charge everyone more to cover the additional costs.
If you want the govenment to cover these people with a medicare type plan, the only way to do it is to take more money from eveyone in the form of taxes. (Or just take it from the rich because people hate those that have more than them)
oh god this corporate puppet again? how have you been?
You are wrong. It started out as a single payer plan, which most people in this country wanted, but because of repugs and blue dog Democrats that became a non starter. It has always been about covering all people and lowering cost. It isn't and shouldn't be about insurance companies.
I will ask you the same question I have asked all along...What do insurance companies bring to the table? What do they do? How do they give us better health care? Why do we need a middle man to get good health care? What does some pencil pusher who is looking after his companies profits have to do with me getting decent health care? Answer me that.
" now most people wanted it" now that's priceless
theoPitt: I guess you have forgotten that France has the best health care in the world but costs only half as much per person as what we pay.
Why are you conservatives against Americans saving $1 trillion a year on health care?
because they care less about their old go-to of fiscal responsibility than they do about crushing democrats..
o and they just don't believe it... and if you explain it to them in plain english with facts, charts, and the whole nine yards... they just close their eyes as tight as they can, cover their ears, and scream, "LALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU.. LALALALALA"
LOL, Phil.
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At the turn of the century French youth who sought opportunity immigrated to the U.S. Taxes were lower, I might add.
http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2009/11/boehnercare-no-soup-for- you.php
"If you're uninsured, this won't help you.
If you're insured, but you worry that circumstances beyond your control-a global financial meltdown leading to layoffs at your company, say-this won't help you.
If you're insured, but you worry that if you get sick your insurer will gin up some pretext to drop your coverage, this won't help you.
If you're insured but your premiums are escalating so fast you worry that you won't be able to afford to keep paying them, this won't help you.
Instead, Boehner is proposing the de facto total deregulation of the health insurance industry. Starting with the accurate observation that it's odd to have insurance regulated fifty different ways in fifty states, the GOP decided not to do the sensible thing and create uniform federal regulation, but instead to let insurers sell plans across state lines. In other words, there'll be a race to the bottom and all insurance will soon be offered under the rules of whichever state is laxest in its rules-goodbye consumer protections!
The result of all this will be a situation in which the health insurance systems works better for people who don't need health care services, and much worse for people who actually are sick or who become sick in the future. It's basically a health un-insurance policy. "
thinkprogress.org is a great site, but I hardly think any of the reets here would even consider anything from them credible.. now if you've got a nice drudge report link.. then we can talk..
What a half-assed attempt at making it seem like you're something other than the party of "NO".
"Look, we have ideas! True, the bill changes nothing, but at least we wrote something down."
"Look! I have a tan. So what if it's orange . . ."
They were getting called out for not having a plan, so they had to rehash all the old ideas. Truly it is a new coat of paint on the same old stuff.
It's truly pathetic.
"The Republican plan doesn't "end insurance industry practices that discriminate against high-risk individuals or provide tax credits to help the uninsured purchase coverage." It is designed for the healthy while they're healthy."
http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2009/11/03/gop-leadership-plan/
Thank you.
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